Audio Sync issues with Infuse 7.5.6 and tvOS 16.5

Platforms Apple TV
1

Hello -

I read through the thread here: tvOS 16 audio sync?

I’m experiencing the exact same issues described by many folks there.

  • App Name (if other than Infuse): Infuse 7.5.6
  • Frame number when the audio sound was played (various tests from here)
    AVSyncTest: -3 frames
    AACSyncTest: 0 frames
    DTS 5.1 Sync test: -3 frames
    Dolby 5.1 Sync test: -4 frames
  • Current Video Format and Match Content settings
    4k, DV, 59.94Hz ; Match Dynamic Range and Frame Rate
  • Current Audio Output and Format settings
    Auto, Atmos Available
  • Connected device(s)
    Apple TV 4k 3rd gen → Denon AVR-X4400H → LG C9 OLED

As was suggested in the thread, disabling match content (specifically match frame rate) resolves the issue, but ideally I would like to match content frame rate. My understanding from the closure of that thread was that this issue was supposed to be resolved with the latest Infuse even with match content enabled.

I tried resetting the “Wireless Audio Sync” option and it just makes things worse.

1 Like
2

You can hear an offset of 1/15th of a second? Are you a :bat:?

3

The 59.94Hz setting is the OS default. The frame tests are done at 23.976 FPS (most film is ~24FPS). 4 frames there is ~166ms which produces noticeable lip sync issues. I didn’t start out trying to find a problem, I noticed one watching content :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
4

Ah, so it is not counting repeated frames then.

Yeah, I tend to notice things in the 1/4-1/2 second range and usually find a decent enough adjustment using 200ms steps. But I’ve blown out my hearing so that might be part of it.

5

Audio Sync is one of the worst things to get your head into, it can ruin your life and keep you awake at night and no matter what tests or results you get sometimes it can make you so obsessive you end up just watching TV staring at peoples mouths or trying to line up gun shots. You nail it with audio delay settings on the AV when watching a film at 24p only for it to look miles out on another frame rate. And the entire journey can be started just because the sync is out on the source file…you end up not even watching TV anymore.

Now whilst I appreciate the above is of no help really it just sums up my experience and how much time I wasted, sometimes just the fact that your centre speaker isnt embedded literally in the panel (like the onboard speakers) can also confuse your mind a bit so placement of this as close to the screen as possible helps. Also there is inbuild adjustments based on how far speakers are from each other and the screen you can make on AV’s, mine has a microphone and I let it calibrate itself based on where we sit.

I tell you, I feel your pain though but what I have found over the years is that the best way to solve it is the reduce the amount of time your TV itself is taking to process an image. For me thats by running TV’s on game mode, any kinda of noise reduction, smooth motion etc etc will vary in its effect from source to source, game mode on my LG B8 switches everything off and makes my TV effectively a monitor giving a consistent starting point and if I need to adjust audio delay I do it on my amp however I dont because if I notice it a fraction out on one film its not the same on the next or it differs on normal cable TV compared to ATV or whatever, I learnt over the years I cant win. Sometimes Apple TV+ content differs from Netflix on the same ATV, I cant adjust it at the start of every show. I used to use a PC with Windows Media Player as my Media Player so getting the ATV it also took some time to get used to the delivery again. One of the times that blew my mind the most was when I need to make the audio come earlier on an old TV but there was no setting for this, just delay, it was a bad few months with that TV.

Now I know there are forensic tests that can be performed and you have noticed it being a problem but from my own experience I would implore you to use a super low latency mode on the TV like Game, ensure enhancements are off and try to accept that sometimes sources just look (from an audio point of view) different, 24p always looks so different to me when it comes to audio delivery from a scene. Especially as I am from the UK which mostly favours 25fps over 23.976fps for TV programs, it seems I am super sensitive to this…and with regards to Gemini Man which is 60fps this looks totally mental but the audio sync seems so good given how smooth it is. When watching BT Sport UHD channel in the UK the audio sync is always out, this is 50fps I think and 4K, I could adjust just for this channel only to wreck every other channel, stupid Virgin Media Box…

I also use match dynamic range and frame rate and without reading that thread, to me these settings OFF would cause sync issue and I like the source to be the source so I dont want my Apple TV to present at its native 60hz Dolby Vision whilst I am watching a 24p source, to me that seems crazy…so these two are always on.

Wireless audio sync isnt designed to solve sync issues with wired AV receivers and surround sound as far as I know.

I am glad to be over it now and can enjoy watching TV and you are welcome to throw this entire post in the bin and carry on down the forensic adjustment path…because these adjustments are there for a reason but we are all friends here and this is my friendly advice because I never did win until I sat back and accepted somethings just dont look ‘right’ and I have to accept that if I sit back and just watch the entire screen I dont convince myself there is something wrong.

For what its worth, I expect if I did run those test it would tell me its out by something, but I dont notice it anymore and im not getting into a situation where im adjusting the sync on the fly, enjoying TV isnt about that. I am at peace, I am wishing you the same.

6

Wow. I feel you. I no stranger to getting sidetracked chasing down the tiniest issues in av gear, software, random noises in the house, a slightly more resistant than normal refrigerator drawer … etc.

A few weeks ago my trusty little George Foreman grill stopped working after I’d given it a wash. It’s such a simple device, it doesn’t have an adjustable thermostat or even an on/off switch — you just plug it in and unplug it.

I took the entire thing apart trying to figure out where it shorted out, unable to visually find a single thing wrong with it. Finally figured I needed to go grab a current tester to see where the flow stopped.

Turned out, it was at the wall. :man_facepalming:t2:
A very unfortunate squirrel stepped from a tree branch to a live power line earlier in the day, blowing up a transformer. That somehow tripped a GFCI on an outlet across the kitchen. I’d only needed to reset that switch.

There was a time I’d verify audio sync on all my new additions (just because my encoding wasn’t as reliable back then) … and I eventually found that it you look too closely you can usually find something off.

Undoubtedly audio sync issues drive me nuts when I notice them. I don’t look so hard these days … but if I do see them, I’ll invariably have to go back and fix them at the source (using MKVToolNix).

Luckily, my encodes have gotten far more reliable and this rarely is a problem anymore (for the content I’m regularly consuming, at least).

7

Reminds me of last week when my wife managed to trap the power chord of the slow cooker between the lip of the bowl and the heating unit, not that we knew at the time but when the power went out in the entire house I eventually found the slow cooker as the culprit, the insulation around the power cord had melted where it was trapped and the live wire was touching the metal casing of the slow cooker. Initially I got blamed for one of the many computers in the house, (“you have too many devices”) :slight_smile:

This is the point, we look too closely and I think sometimes the sync is probably right, its just the presentation of the image and audio together perhaps looks different to our reference points. I remember trying to line up speech (because it looked out) only to find that because of the way different people move their lips in time with the actual sound coming out…that different people within the same scene would look in or out of sync. Speech looked out of sync but the audio tests didnt present the same :confused:

I also agree, fixing sync in the MKVToolNix is another way to go, until you take that file and watch it on another TV which doesnt have an AV or is just a different setup and the sync looks different there. In my house I have 3 ATV’s, one in the main lounge with an AV setup and 5.1 and my LG B8, one in our daughters player area which just uses the onboard speakers and is a crappy 1080p Panasonic from 2014 and lastly one in our kitchen on a 19" TV again using onboard speakers. I rarely use it on my Macbook Pro or iPhone but its there too. Point is, all these setups will respond slightly differently and things like lip sync, and I use lip sync specifically, will look different, they are fundamentally different setups.

So I have to sit back and just watch the damn thing and not look forensically. Im sure audio sync is out or in in a variety scenarios, perhaps even at the Cinema depending on where you sit and so on or how its presented.

For me the ‘Partner Test’ is always the one, or in my case the ‘Wife Test’, does she notice it?.. when she has done its most likely a real issue that I need to fix. I guess if my 2.5 yo daughter notices it then perhaps the audio is from a completely different time zone :slight_smile:

8

I figure I get nowhere trying to adjust audio sync on various devices when the problem exists in the original file. So I’ll first play the thing on my laptop; where it’s either in sync or it isn’t. I adjust the delay as needed (using MPC-HD), plug the delay into MKVToolNix, save it, and done. Same procedures if internal subtitles are off (or I’ll just grab a new sub that isn’t).

If there’s any offset after that, I know it isn’t from the file. Haven’t really encountered a need to adjust sync on various components anymore (from title to title) since doing that.

Yeah, we’re easy targets. Now I live alone and have to blame people who don’t even exist when things go mysteriously wrong.

Never the squirrels though. Poor things.
:zap::chipmunk::headstone::sunflower:

9

One of the films I went crazy on was 500 Days of Summer (one of my favourite films ever), the way the two main cast speak looks like it is out of sync no matter what, their mouth movements are so elongated and vowels stretched and so on, I ran this through MKVToolNix so many times and after watching a certain scene 9000 times eventually I though best let it go. You are right though, I guess my point is that different setups will vary regardless if the source is in sync or not, like if I checked a file on my MacBook I dont even know if the native 60hz actually adjusts the content you are watching. Anyway, today I’m so over it I dont even look unless its super obvious and it would be only me who notices anyway.

Anyway, I guess we best leave this guy to pour over our bro-mance and make his own mind up!

2 Likes
10

Just contributing another data point; this still seems to be an issue with Infuse 7.5.8 and tvOS 16.6 with Match Frame Rate enabled on 3rd gen Apple TV 4K.

With the Dolby 5.1 sync test clip the offset seems to be somewhat random between -4 and 0 frames.

Playing the clip, exiting and then playing it again gives the same result. But after changing some audio/video settings, testing, then changing them back and testing again the original offset cannot be reproduced. Sync had been feeling inconsistent since I started with the Apple TV & Infuse a couple of months ago so I guess tvOS has also been rolling the dice each power cycle?

I’ve tried setting up wireless audio sync (separately for both frame rates), fiddling with game mode & HDMI lip sync settings on my TV + AVR but none of these seemed to correct the randomness.

Fortunately I just got a new TV w/ 3:2 cadence detection so my workaround has been to disable Match Frame Rate and lock in 59.94Hz. Cadence detection appears to work well for 23.976Hz content, and for 25/50Hz content I prefer a bit of judder to bad audio sync.

The irony is that I was prompted to buy an Apple TV and try Infuse after an update triggered inconsistent audio sync issues with Kodi on a Chromecast w/ Google TV! Though I’m generally loving the experience & happily subscribed to Infuse Pro - it’s slick.

Full details

In all cases ATV is connected to TV, sound passed through to receiver via ARC.

Old setup - inconsistent sync perceived but never tested:

Infuse 7.5.x
tvOS 16.5.x

  • Apple TV 4K 3rd gen
    • Match frame rate enabled
    • Encode multichannel as DD5.1 / AC3
  • Cheap no-brand 4K TV
    • SPDIF pass-through
  • Yamaha RX-V371
    • HDMI lip sync: auto

New setup - inconsistent sync confirmed:

Infuse 7.5.8, tvOS 16.6.0

  • Apple TV 4K 3rd gen
    • Match frame rate enabled
    • Decode multichannel to LPCM
  • Sony A80K
    • Encode multichannel as DD5.1 / AC3
    • HDMI lip sync (“A/V sync”): auto
  • Yamaha RX-V371
    • HDMI lip sync: auto

Workaround: disable match frame rate

11

I’ve been able to consistently reproduce another A/V sync issue with some files - H264/AAC in .mkv container.

When the file is played from the beginning the audio is about 1 second ahead of video after 2m30s. The workaround is to rewind 10 seconds then the sync is fine, or to go back & reopen from the saved timestamp.

Edit: sample clip uploaded to the Dropbox link & accompanying description emailed.