Option to use alternate episode order

Can someone official explain like I’m 5, what is the expected process here for paid users? When we have multiple shows (many hundred episodes) ordered incorrectly (by airdate) and not the correct narrative order (by DVD)? How are we expected to easily align these with the correct DVD metadata that’s already available on the public databases? Without API access to scrape all the metadata, nor the time to custom-edit hundreds of episodes manually if we could. How can we leverage the work already available publicly without every single user having to reinvent the wheel?

I’m at a loss for why this crucial feature has been seemingly abandonded. The only solution seems to be selecting local metadata (which is empty) and having bland file name navigation - losing the benefits of the public databases, synopsis, and imagery for multiple shows. If that’s the only answer, it’s a super bummer man.

This is one of the most viewed items in the “wishlist” category, and has weaved in and out of planned vs not for years. Given the source of many people’s TV episodes, it’s a given that DVD episode order is prevalent. XBMC did this out of the box. Why this is beyond infuse just boggles the mind, and remains the core reason I have not fully adopted it as my media player solution.

Explained as if you’re 5:

Were expected to just accept the current method (air date) or solve the issue ourselves by opting for local metadata using TinyMediaManager or something similar (which only works for movies currently, so a null point). Another options is using Plex/Jellyfin for metadata instead of Infuse but that relies on having a full NAS setup (which likely doesn’t apply to a lot of users).

As it stands, we’re out of luck until somebody decides to allow local metadata for shows or adds an option to select different episode groups via TMDB.

With any luck custom nfo/xml files for TV series will come to the rescue

https://community.firecore.com/t/create-custom-tv-series-using-nfo-xml-files/18882

Hopefully, but it highly depends on how it’s implemented. Any metadata scraping app will need to allow the use of episode groups too - either way, it’ll be a time consuming chore when we’re talking about having to manually sort through shows with hundreds of episodes (Naruto, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, etc).

The objectively better (and likely easier) fix would be to just add a setting to let the user choose an episode group through TMDB…

Update: I solved this, despite Infuse only using airdate-order. It took me a few hours of work for a single show (moving files around etc) - not ideal, but it worked and here’s what I did:

1 - Copy the entire TV series/show onto a volume that you can work with TinyMediaManager. Ensure the folder & naming structure matches best practices, and the episode order that you want. (EG. SHOWNAME/Season 01/SHOWNAME S01E01 Title.mkv)

2 - Add the main/top-level folder to TinyMediaManager’s database. In TMM select each season folder individually and choose which Metadata to download & use for it - I chose TVDB DVD Order. This results in each Season folder being populated with NFO metadata sidecar files for each episode, episode thumbnails, and various season artwork files.

3- Copy some preferred artwork to the top-level folder (outside the season folders). I specifically placed all season posters (seasonXX-poster.jpg) and the main show images (poster.jpg, fanart.jpg, and clearlogo.jpg). Individual episode thumbnails can stay next to their respective episodes.

4 - Set Infuse Metadata & Artwork settings: Metadata Fetching ON, Prefer Embedded Artwork OFF, Prefer Local Artwork ON, Prefer Local Metadata ON, Show Logos ON, Show External Ratings ON.

While wholesale local metadata isn’t supported yet for TV Shows (main show data needs to be matched online), all episode naming, order, and metadata can be overridden using the above steps. I would prefer that this “just worked” by selecting DVD order in Infuse, but at least I now have things in the correct order, with episodes in the correct seasons, with info and thumbs all appearing correctly. Now to look at the other shows I have with this problem. long deep sigh

Incredible if true. I use TinyMediaManager and will check to see if I can duplicate this.

I mount a NAS via SMB. Should it work in that configuration?

My library is a simple SMB share, so I would imagine yours is the same. No Plex or Jellyfin here.

It’s crazy that this was requested 9 years ago now, and still nothing

I’ve only got a few TV shows where this is an issue, and most are only a single season, so I’ve been able to make do with incorrect labels, but it’s still really annoying; and I can only imagine how bad it is for others with massive libraries of indirectly titled TV episodes.

I’d love to know why this feature request keeps vacillating between planned and wish/listed. Is it an issue with TMDB’s API making it difficult to implement? Developer indifference?

I really like Infuse, and pay for it yearly, but the lack of any movement on this long sought after feature is extremely frustrating and making me look at other options.

I’ll be trying this later and report back whether it works over SMB for those that also want to know. It’s explicitly a problem with anime for me as everything else is appropriately organised or catalogued.

I imagine the reason the feature has never been implemented by the developers is that it’s either more complicated than it would seem or the user base requesting it is so small it’s just never become a priority. How many people are using a NAS with Plex, Emby or Jellyfin on the backend to handle the metadata? I’d imagine the majority. I know the sell of Infuse is just being a direct play solution that can scale down to a budget of either a single cheap drive in a router or a cloud service subscription so it has broader use cases.

My only “complaint” is that it’s been a requested feature for several years at this point because they’ve been more focused on UI updates to align with things like “Liquid Glass” over adding features that serve a niche. I get it, but serving the paying subscribers is more important than broadly acquiring new ones that might not even stick around.

Well folks. That just simply worked. Took me about 5 minutes to test on one series.

One note - In TinyMediaManager we have our choice of NFO flavors - Kodi, XBMX, Emby, Jellyin, Plex etc. This didn’t seem to matter, but I mention it here in case one of these formats is better than the other (I stuck with Kodi - since I have a bunch of Kodi NFOs anyway).

Fantastic!

Unfortunately this hasn’t been my case.

On a positive note, it worked for Dragon Ball Super (by selecting ‘Air Date’ and it’s now structured into seasons/arcs instead of all in 1 season) but it’s absolutely not worked for Naruto (DVD Order, not air date - I haven’t even tried Shippuden yet). I’ve formatted the filenames accordingly but it’s not picking anything up. Maybe I’ve got the wrong file name format and that’s on me but no variation of anything works. What’s more annoying is that TMDB has Naruto working just fine.

The reason I wanted to try tvdb for Naruto instead was I’ve read through multiple threads on TMDB where mods have stated that their intention with anime is for everything to just be 1 big season (yes, even One Piece with 1000+ episodes) so my aim is to move away from TMDB entirely for anime, the problem is that Infuse doesn’t look anywhere else other than local metadata. I can fix Naruto over the weekend easily enough by reverting back to TMDB’s formatting and scrape/save it locally to avoid surprise changes down the road. I keep backups anyway.

The headache I’m noticing is that there’s no consistent formatting rule on TMDB. It’s not like we’re talking about an eclectic unknown anime either - we’re talking the big 3. Naruto only has 220 episodes but it was a nightmare to format until I realised that the seasons just continued the episode number - meaning instead of ‘S02E01’ (like you’d assume) it’s ‘S02E53’ (chronologically episode 53 is the 1st episode of Season 2) which I’d be fine with if this was a consistent rule but it isn’t. It’s the rule Naruto & Shippuden followed when they were made by a moderator and now can’t be edited (and even if I can edit it, I’d break other users libraries in the process). One Piece follows this rule but Dragon Ball Z doesn’t (but is at least seasoned) whereas Dragon Ball Super is just 1 season of 131 episodes. Attack on Titan is mostly correct but it incorrectly lists the last 2 episodes of season 4 as specials as they were released that way, chronologically its season 4 though. For newcomers that don’t know that (because you know, they’re new) means they either have to go digging and risk spoiling things or they simply miss out. Sure, running a media server is a hobby at this point so chances are, none of us are new. It’s not a cohesive, headache-free or ‘simple’ experience though.

The point of Infuse’s metadata fetching is to automate the process; if we have to manually collate from 3 different sources or use third party applications then it isn’t seamless. I understand that Infuse isn’t directly at fault here because it’s the inconsistent enforcement of TMDB’s rule structure but Infuse exclusive uses TMDB. I wouldn’t even care if anime relied on a different community database as long as it’s correct. Infuse could easily fix this though by allowing you to flag what episode group (order) you’d prefer the app to follow (it even allows you to create episode groups, meaning if the one your after isn’t present then you can make it and others get the benefit).

Ultimately I don’t care what I actually have to use or rely on, I just want it to work and stay fixed. The fact we have to go to this extent is a joke to me though, for people like my GF who has no technical ‘know how’ it’s tough and it comes the way it’s served.

TLDR; It looks like it works… sometimes. I’ll try a few options but otherwise revert Naruto to TMDB whilst that’s still somewhat correct (even though Shippuden isn’t).

The solution might just be to use TinyMediaManager to scrape the data and then tweak the season/episode structure to your preferred format in the app afterwards. I hate sounding grouchy and making out that this is a big deal, I’ve just been fighting with this for well over a year now so I’m a tad fed up.

Sorry guys :joy:

What is your Folder & File naming? I’ve had issues previously until I used Showname/Season 01/Showname S01E01 EpisodeTitle.mkv

And did you double check your metadata settings inside infuse?

I was able to move a bunch of S02 episodes to S01 and change the episode order, simply by having my files named to match TVDB DVD Order, then fetching everything with TMM. Infuse is only getting the show title from TMDB now. It doesn’t seem to notice that I’ve changed episode placement and season length.

And what do you mean by

What’s more annoying is that TMDB has Naruto working just fine

If it’s fine, what are you trying to change exactly? I’m happy to test on that specific show with dummy files.

This worked quickly for me because I already had my entire TV episode file system in the correct folder structure and naming format (i.e. showname S0nE0n). I do add the episode name as well and it doesn’t seem to impact metadata scraping.

I did hit one bug - none of the episode thumbnails updated. So while the episode order was corrected the thumbnails were still in the airdate order (!) and I thought ACK! So close yet so far. It turned out TinyMediaManager appends a “-thumb” to the thumbnail jpgs for each episode, and that fubars Infuse from picking it up. I manually removed the -thumb from the filenames, refreshed metadata and that fixed the problem (if anyone knows how to get TinyMediaManager to not do that for the thumbnails let me know). So yes, this process is full of pains both large and small, and might explain why Firecore has been slow to adopt changes or extra features involving the online movie/tv data bases.

And - found the setting in TinyMediaManager that avoids appending -thumb to the episode thumbnails. One minor annoyance knocked down (settings → TV Shows → Artwork scraper → Artwork filenames)

Hi folks. I just learned something on the thread below. Seemingly innocuous details in episode naming can make or break metadata. In this case using The Prisoner 1967 vs The Prisoner (1967) was enough to separate out something working vs completely failing (in this case, whether the specials seasons were picked up). I mention it here, since it could bear on episode naming issues we’ve encountered. Might fix Anime series naming for example. BTW without the name switch above, both Infuse scraping and the NFO files from TinyMediaManager wouldn’t work. It just shows how finicky the entire online database situation can be.

I believe the best way to resolve this frustrating issue, would be to allow users to re-order episodes locally, without the need for an online database.

The rest of the metadata could still come from TMDB, and it would certainly be nice to allow users to select alternate orders from said database, if what they are looking for is present there.

But allowing for manual, local customization would be the best way to ensure that everyone gets what they want.

What is your Folder & File naming? I’ve had issues previously until I used Showname/Season 01/Showname S01E01 EpisodeTitle.mkv

Literally this. It’s in a folder named ‘Anime’ following the Naruto/Season 1/Naruto (2002) - S01E01 - Enter, Naruto Uzumaki.mkv

If it’s fine, what are you trying to change exactly? I’m happy to test on that specific show with dummy files.

The problem isn’t that exact show not working, it’s the fact that countless others don’t because TMDB is extremely dysfunctional and inconsistent with how it formats anime. Naruto is correct, assuming you want that specific ‘aired date’ as there is no other way of selecting another episode group. By default it has 4 seasons of Naruto when officially there’s 5 seasons. What if I want it formatted by story arc without the filler episodes? There’s no way to do that when Infuse defaults to the main “air date” on TMDB and it assumes that the air date is even correct.

Dragon Ball Super is just 1 season with 131 episodes according to the default air date on TMDB. That structure is awful to navigate on a media player though.

I was able to move a bunch of S02 episodes to S01 and change the episode order, simply by having my files named to match TVDB DVD Order, then fetching everything with TMM. Infuse is only getting the show title from TMDB now.

This does in fact work for me too but only for Air Date, nothing aligns with the DVD Order even when I name the files accordingly. Granted I have Dragon Ball Super fixed into 5 seasons now so it’s a lot better (enough to be happy with) but should I have to actively manage the metadata with a 3rd party app that requires a 1 year license to even be able to scrape metadata from the TVDB or any other source that isn’t TMDB? I don’t see it as a suitable fix, it’s a workaround that requires time and money to fix.

I’m being petty at this point I accept because the issue is fixed for now. All it takes is a simple update from the mods on TMDB to lock that Naruto is 1 season of 220 episodes and it’s going to ruin a lot of people’s libraries.

At this point, if I’m managing my own media to this level I may as well buy a NAS and sort it manually using Jellyfin myself but at that level, it’s now a hobby and unrealistic to expect the majority of people using Infuse to actually be doing that.

Infuse is supposed to be plug and play where it does it for you.

I agree with this idea, basically if Infuse had it’s own section in the app or a metadata managing tool for itself (like TinyMediaManager) where it would be easy to restructure content to display how you want within the app.

I’m all for that.

TMDB does have alternative episode/season structures, such as DVD order. They call them “Episode Groups”

For example: here is the default for Cowboy Bebop (by air date, which puts episodes out of order): Cowboy Bebop: Season 1 (1998) — The Movie Database (TMDB)

Here is the DVD/Bluray episode order (the “correct” one(: Cowboy Bebop (TV Series 1998-1999) - Season 1 - (Blu-ray Order) — The Movie Database (TMDB)

The problem is 1) TMDB has a policy of using aired date as default, and 2) Infuse currently provides no way of accessing these alternative episode groups.

I assume there is a TMDB API for it but maybe not. it would be nice to long press on a TV show and get the option to select from TMDB episode groups. Perhaps even a global setting to apply a default such as DVD order.