Infuse On Pre Big Sur OS

It doesn’t make any sense that it doesn’t work in MacOs Catalina when it’s still very recent bigsur.

We can’t have many testing beta since I’m not updating Bigsur for a while.

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Your point makes absolutely no sense. Catalina has become the previous version as soon as Big Sur came out. Big Sur is the current version as it’s out of beta and Catalina, although it has a lot of market share with people yet to update to Big Sur is as of right now is the previous version.

The developers have said already that they are leveraging features only available in Big Sur. if you don’t believe them, let them know directly but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t exclude an OS if they didn’t need to. Either wait until you update to Big Sur or if you want to test so badly use a VM?

These points were covered days ago when the Alpha wasn’t even out.

It’s been covered numerous times, that the reason it’s only on Big Sur is because it uses APIs only available in Big Sur. There aren’t any immediate plans to make it backwards compatible with previous versions of MacOS but it may happen in the future.

Fundamentally, Big Sur has features that Catalina does not. For example, the reason for every crash is that Infuse is trying to load a “UICollectionViewListCell”.

As can be seen from this link (Apple Developer Documentation), that was only added in iOS 14/Mac Catalyst 14, which is the Mac Catalyst version in Big Sur.

Also, Big Sur is most certainly out of Beta. It may not be stable enough for you to use it, but Apple has deemed it stable enough to release to the masses, thereby making it the current version, and making Catalina the previous version.

It would be nice to know what are these features that Big Sur has and Catalina not.

The “UICollectionViewListCell” you mentioned is just a new class that inherits from “UICollectionViewCell” (Apple Developer Documentation), available in Catalina, and it just seems to provide a ready to use cross-device implementation for “a collection view cell that provides list features and default styling”, nothing that cannot be done otherwise.

I understand that, while bumping a major release, relying on latest version of the framework will make the life much easier for an app intended to be portable between various apple devices, but it would be more honest to admit it, rather than talking about “unavailable features”, if those features are just for the sake of portability.

I have no insight into the actual code base of Infuse, but I think it’s likely that (almost) all of the “new features” needed in Big Sur are to do with portability. Almost everything that a standard app does can be done in almost every version of macOS (via custom-designed views and implementations), but the reason to use newer APIs is that it’s easier and more cost-effective.

I think that a large reason why a Mac Infuse app even exists is because of the (relative!) ease of porting it using new APIs and a lack of custom platform-specific hacks. If, for it to make business sense, Big Sur is the version that needs to be targeted, then that’s what the devs will do, and I don’t think that’s dishonest, and I think it’s similarly not dishonest to avoid getting into the technical details of why Catalina can’t be supported.

I doubt you would think it unreasonable if instead they said it only would work on macOS Catalina and onwards (this is when Mac Catalyst was introduced), as otherwise they’d have to write lots of custom AppKit code just for Mac. I think this is the same thing, just on a smaller scale.

The developers have already stated they are targeting big sur for the initial release. Your options are:

  1. Update to Big Sur.
  2. Don’t update, use something else such as kodi and quit crying.

I’m 99% sure that this is a Catalyst app with “Optimize interface for Mac” checked. The “add files” window and the settings are dead giveaways.

That allows them to reuse a huge part of their iOS interface code but still optimize it for the mac. This is a Big Sur only feature: the only supported way to make catalyst apps ok Catalina is to have it look like an iPad app (and get that disastrous 75% scaling, which sucks for a video app)
It’s smart to do it this way: for small compromises that will be limited by work on their side, they can reuse most of infuse. Meaning that we’ll get a macOS version and they’re not taking a huge business risk and investment on something that might be way less popular than the iOS version

So no, porting to catalina isn’t as simple as rewriting a collection view cell.
you might be tempted to ask “but just make it look like an iPad app on Catalina, I don’t care”.
You can’t. Once you check “Optimize interface for Mac” your app becomes Big Sur only and there is no way around it (and if one was found it wouldn’t be supported by Apple and therefore a bad idea). Catalyst on Catalina was really rough (still is on Big Sur) and Apple doesn’t really care about retro compatibility for it

Anyway, this is the first beta. By the time we get to the final, lots more people will have installed Big Sur so it will be not that big of a deal

It would be everything fine but for the fact that would be actually better to not upgrade to Big Sur :wink:

I don’t care, this is not relevant to Infuse. (don’t “it’s relevant because infuse is big sur only” me, please)

I was merely pointing out that this isn’t just a shortcut that would only require them to write two classes themselves. That’s it, I’m not here to debate about other stuff Apple did in Big Sur

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you made it relevant saying there will be much more Big Sur installations and the missing compatibility with Catalina won’t be a problem :wink:

There’s a lot of people annoyed by that “feature” in Big Sur that’s not going to update.

I use Infuse only on AppleTV and I don’t think Firecore is making the macOS version a selling point: if they’d do they had be gone for the extra effort of supporting Catalina.

At the contrary there will be probably people that haven’t done until now, ready to upgrade, just to have Infuse on macOS, but they are most probably existing subcribers.

It’s exactly like you said:

But why not be transparent about it? Talking about missing features in Catalina for an app like this seems to implicate limits on what it can do as video player, while it was just a deliberate choice to minimise the development effort as you said.

Seriously man? This is video player. what feature is soooo important to be it only for Big Sur?
This is not good sign or indication of developer laziness, you never know when your software breaks up because developer say “your OS is too old”,
nah thank you I stick with tvOS

I just want to show my support to the developers and Infuse peeps here again. I haven’t been on other parts of the forum apart from macOS-related threads, but I truly hope that people are kind and courteous in those other corners of this forum.

Thank you, developers, for working on porting over a version of this to macOS. The app has its bugs, but it is truly outstanding for THE FIRST ALPHA VERSION as well as considering some of the limitations of the UIKit/AppKit/SwiftUI APIs I’m assuming you’re having to wrestle with under the hood (those aren’t easy to wrangle).

Best wishes and I’m excited to see what this software has in store this coming year :heart:

@Beyo Typical comment from a user who doesn’t understand the implications of what he/she is saying. You are clearly not a programmer, I am, and I understand why this will only target Big Sur and newer. The devs are doing their best to bring this great app to macOS, and comments like yours suggesting they are lazy are unwanted here. You want a video player for older OS’s go use VLC, or better still learn to code and write your own.

Plasma

Hyhyhyhyhy I am programming probably for more than your lifetime, and surpirse I am iOS developer.
So I know what I am saying and you before you do some assumption about me, ask first you idiot.
Nothing in developer world annoys me more like people blindly follow what Apple excepct them to see.
We don’t need MacOS version each year and if Apple does that at least developers should be decent and support up to 3 version system behind because professional people who use Mac for work are always on earlier versions (I’m on Mojave which works great), because contrary to what Tim Cook says “latest != greatest”.
As I said, Infuse is a video player, hell it does not even play music, so don’t tell me about special features available in Big Sur only.

The “Optimise Interface for Mac” checkbox for Mac Catalyst apps requires Big Sur. This is (probably) the missing feature.

Without this, a Mac app wouldn’t be feasible. An app for Big Sur is better (by far!) than no app at all.

I guess it’s clear: they don’t want professionals to watch videos on their work machine. Easy as that.

@Beyo there is no need to be rude, did I call you an idiot or be disrespectful? NOPE! Anyway I’m almost 50, so if you have been programming for my lifetime and are such a great and talented developer it won’t be very hard for you to write your own app will it?

Plasma

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

For those interested, we are using Catalyst to develop Infuse for macOS. Building a great macOS experience for a complex app like Infuse is much more involved than simply checking the Catalyst box in Xcode, but it does help streamline the transition. The net result is a shortened development cycle as instead of having to rewrite everything we just need to rewrite many things.

While we may explore making Infuse available on older versions of macOS in the future, the Big Sur version is usable now, so we decided to make it available for everyone to start testing.

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And I for one is very grateful for that :blush:
Works like charm in my old 2013 MacBook Pro